- [Announcer] Major funding for this program was provided by- (mellow digital music) - Welcome to Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders, A Philadelphia story.

I'm your host, Rob Buscher.

Asian Americans and Pacific islanders make up a demographic that encompasses over 40 unique countries and cultures of origin, everything East of Istanbul and West of California.

As a mixed race Japanese - American, I grew up learning about the history of my community through stories of our elders.

Unfortunately, because this history is missing from most school curriculums, I knew very little about other a AAPI communities until I became an Ethnic Studies Scholar.

In this series, we will share the local history of Asian-Americans and Pacific Islanders through conversation with some of Philadelphia's most prominent Asian-American community members.

Together, we will explore the unique experiences of being AAPI in Philadelphia.

On today's episode, we are discussing topics related to the Asian-American business community, including the history of Asian-American business corridors in Philadelphia and interminority relations.

I'm joined by panelists Nick Shenoy, founding president of the Asian American Chamber of Commerce of Greater Philadelphia, Sharon Hartz, president of the Korean American Association of Greater Philadelphia, and Naroen Chhin, advocate and Cambodian American Community Organizer.

Thank you all for joining us today.

So to get us started with this conversation, Nick, in your role with the chamber you've interacted with businesses of all sizes and industries and I was hoping that you might be able to give us a little context on what it is to be small and micro-business owners as well as the idea of subsistence entrepreneurship.

- Yeah, thank you Rob.

The Asian American Chamber of Commerce serves nine counties in this region.

It is more focused on serving Philadelphia county, which has a 13,000 micro-businesses.

They are predominantly family owned, first generation immigrant business.

Our immigrant population is in business for survival, as they're not well suited for well-paying jobs.

The main objective is to survive as a family and educate their children.

The micro-business makes significant economic contribution to this region.

The Asians are stereotyped as well-to-do community.

In some areas it is so, but not in Philadelphia.

Poverty rate in Asian community is still 25%.

Mom and pop businesses struggle to survive, they work day and night to make the ends meet.

Global economy has brought entrepreneurs in this country.

Well educated and well financed entrepreneurs have been successful and well financed in several counties, mainly in technology and pharmaceutical area.

Such a trend seems to be continuing even after the pandemic.

Asian community has a different culture and different languages.

They also have different ways of doing business, some directly related to their culture.

Most find it difficult to adopt rules and regulations which they are not familiar with, especially in Philadelphia, where city council members are not business friendly and some are targeting Asian businesses.

We have a long way to go to overcome these hurdles and burdens, thank you.

- Yeah thanks for that introductory information, I think it'll be helpful as we get further into this conversation.

I'd like to turn over to Sharon now.

Can you talk a little bit about the history of the Korean-American Business Community and also the formation of some of the business corridors?

- Korean Community history started back in 1970s, which is 51 years ago.

They started the Moms and Pops small businesses.

They are convenience stores, Asian groceries, beauty supplies stores, and dry cleaners are main businesses they started from.

Now they had been added sportswear businesses, such as sneaker store, now big on mobile devices businesses with knowing Samsung is a made Korean brand.

Those businesses grew into bigger groceries, such as H Mart and the Assi Plaza and more other groceries locations.

Locations wise, there have been near fifth street and Ho Chi Minh street, which was called the Korean town in back then, now it's all spread into the different areas.

There are approximately 2,500 small businesses owners in Korean American and Greater Philadelphia area.

- Great, thanks for those statistics, those are helpful for our discussion.

It's kind of interesting to see how some of the Asian immigrant business owners have gone into those business corridors, Chinatown is obviously the best example, but we also have a number of other smaller business corridors throughout the city.

Turning to you now Naroen, as a member of the Cambodian American Business Community and also a small business owner yourself, can you give us a little bit of background on the Seventh Street Corridor and also Washington Avenue, which are some of the largest Southeast Asian business corridors in our city?

- Thank you so much Rob.

So, our Southeast Asian Community our entry point into America and to Philadelphia started in the early 80s, early nineties, right?

A lot of Vietnamese, Cambodian and the oceans Monk resettled war in Logan, Philadelphia.

And also in again, as you mentioned, was in South Philadelphia, Seventh Street and also Washington Avenue, a lot of the folks there they is, they started small businesses because a lot of this, a lot of jobs that was, there was no hire, no, paying, no living wage job that would hire our, our communities, you know, and they do what they do best as the, you know, American entrepreneur spirit would start their own business from just some just started with a local jeweler shop as well.

A lot of to toasted oven with donut and donut shops and as well as takeouts, as well to Chinese takeout specifically in Seventh Street, back then the, before we arrived during the sixties and Seventies was a predominantly a Jewish business corridor.

They started leaving when, you know, at the South Philadelphia and all South Philadelphia Seventh Street was really predominant of Southeast Asian and that the time white flight, they moved into a suburban area and we, we settled there.

A majority of my community.

We settled there and we opened right there and just created a community in that Seventh Street.

And in terms of Washington Avenue, a lot of Vietnamese, Vietnamese community, we settled that area.

So as you can see in Washington Avenue, there was a lot of Vietnamese own business shop.

A lot of them have the fun noodle shops, even some of the small markets as well, too.

And there was the place where that they, you know, fell as a whole Cockle in both places where community we centers.

Yeah.

- So it seems that in all these opportunities, these are really places where community is built and that it's not just a means of sustenance, but it's also the heart of where these community conversations are fostered.

And a lot of the community, the organizations are also based there.

So I think one of the questions that I had for Nick then I, I find it difficult to place where specifically in Philadelphia, a lot of the South Asian or Indian American business owners are.

And I was curious if you could kind of tell us a little bit about your own personal history.

I believe you've been in this region since the 1980s and are a small business owner initially yourself.

So if you could tell us a little bit about your personal history and how that relates to the larger community experience.

- Sure.

You know, my first involvement with the Indian American Business Community is in the 1990s, when the Governor Casey removed Indian Americans from minority status stating that it didn't have enough information of disadvantaged Indians.

I had basically taken the parental data to him, to his administration.

Nevertheless, he did not rescind the executive order.

Governor Tom Ridge finally came up and rescinded the executive order.

That was my first experience in business community here.

I started my business in 1996 as an engineering company.

I had a difficult time getting working capital from the banks and external sources.

I had really, had to rely on my family and friends for working capital.

Growing the business at that time was very difficult.

Since opportunity was limited, although minority classification did help to get some businesses.

It also has its limitations.

The corporations were accepting minority business just to meet their goals and no more.

So I had finally decided to go as a Prime Contractor and I was able to grow .

the first group of successful Indian Businesses Owners came from Uganda as immigrants not from India.

They realized that they are on their own and formed a group to help each other by pro community funding.

Now they own about 60% of hotels and motels in the United States.

There are several other Indian business organizations in suburbs promoting business within Indian community.

The well educated population arrived to two decades ago in Silicon Valley, and they have been very successful in starting in owning a business.

Many Indian CEOs run the major corporation like Microsoft, Google, and Pepsi-Cola Order Bay to name a few.

You know.

The Second Generation Indians -Americans are well integrated within the mainstream and as such, they have less discrimination to start a business.

The First Generation Indian - American continue to grow in this country.

- Yeah.

Thanks for sharing that.

And I think you raised an important point in terms of the community loans, right?

And how do you build capital when you're not able to gain access official channels of funding.

And that I think has played a large role in the story of many of our Immigrant business communities.

Naroen, I'd like to turn back to you with this question.

I remember that after the Philadelphia City Council passed the stop and go bill, which ultimately changed some of the license and inspection requirements around the class of businesses known as beer delis, that this was a very controversial issue for some of the Asian American small business owners.

And specifically, I think you told me that about 15 of the Cambodian American and other Southeast Asian businesses had closed because of that.

I was wondering if you could kind of comment a little bit about that process, the legislation then also the impact on the community.

- Yeah, I mean, in the media, you know, stop and go bill here in the City of Philadelphia, what we was, you know, community members was that owned the beer deli they reported to us was they were closed because when this took effect, you know, what was happening on the ground was, yes, there's certain criteria that's, you know, with the Plexiglas removal and whatnot, but more important was, it was an entry point for like department L and I and Health Inspection to come through, right.

To inspect their place of business.

Right.

If they're going to see like one thing, like a water issue or AEX cast issue#*(inaudible) all of a sudden they start seeing something else.

Right.

And then they start, they use, it's like opening up a can of worms.

They use this bill entry point where like, you know, they're going for one thing, all of a sudden they see like, you know, rat or poop or, you know, the water's not hot.

The staff is not wearing any gloves, not wearing that.

So they use, they open a lot of can of worms.

And as a result of that, they just stop operation.

So they'll some for X amount of day, 10, 15 days or whatnot.

And that was really hardship.

And a lot of our folks, you know, they owned the best.

A lot of folks don't know how to really navigate, you know, the department, LNI City Hall, they rely on the lawyers and some folks didn't have any proper funding.

Like, you know, Nick Shenoy spoke about capital.

A lot of this, lawyer was draining their resources to trying to connect for us as a community organization was we was able to, because of our, a lot of our civic engagement, everything was able to connect the dots with District Council a and trying to help mediate this problem and let them be a middle person to connect with the system which is department line and health inspection, but made a lot of folks, you know, hard to do to open operators when all this it's a family business, they're not making anything, you know, big corporation money.

They're just trying to feed their family, you know, and just to stop this type of operation, that's almost like, you know you are choking the livelihood of a family.

- Yeah, thank you for that perspective.

And I think it's important to kind of think about these in a depoliticized way, because I think so much of the original conversation around that bill had this kind of undertone of, of racial tension.

And I think that, unfortunately it kind of pit a couple different communities against one another in the context of that argument with the stop and go bill.

But at Sharon, I'd like to turn our attention back to you.

I understand that the Korean American community suffered some losses and vandalism during the civil unrest in summer of 2020.

And I think unfortunately part of that is related to some of these tensions that are perceived, but can you talk a little bit about the impact that, that had on the Korean American business community and also the work that they have been doing as business owners to better integrate and communicate with the communities that they serve.

- So out of 2,500 businesses, there are hundred beauty supply stores in Philadelphia only.

And about 75 businesses were directly damaged during summer of 2020 .

Korean American association, along with the Korean Chamber Association.

And Nick is here and also Asian chamber association partnered with a number of other organizations to assist these financial support.

And from the damage applying for grant or introducing all grant opportunity and changing or helping translating application into Korean, knowing majority, those business owners are first generation immigrant generation and more comfortable with speaking Korean instead.

So them is or approximately 60 million dollars.

It's not recorded, but that's what we have worked on and found out.

And it's been year on recovering side of businesses is still tough.

Some of the business is closed down permanently.

Some are couple months temporary, but some of them sized down.

Also they considering to relocating their businesses and definitely struggling in many areas including insurance problem or other issues.

We create a regular association, a greater flat (inaudible) just trying to find and advocate ways to assist those businesses to recover.

And financially also building a relationship with other communities because businesses in immigration community is very important and not only for our community, for other communities as well, they've been some of the opportunity to get connected with the local community and police department in the other organizations and all the Korean smaller organizations and leaders are, has been, have been putting our effort together to communicate and also educate who we are and introducing cultural differences.

This will take years to develop the relationship, but we will continue to get interact with the City and different population to seek opportunity to recover and United together.

And there are a couple of events and that we had been providing and introducing Korean culture ,food, and inviting other population, and that we are going to continue to develop, to find a ways to get over and recovering the situation.

- Thank you for sharing that.

And that's encouraging to hear that there are so many conversations in the works right now to kind of build that solidarity between communities I'd like to open the same kind of question up to both Nick and Naroen.

If you'd like to comment a little bit about the impact that the aftermath of the George Floyd Uprisings have had on businesses in your respective communities and how those conversations are continuing to develop, why don't we start with you, Nick?

- Actually, the Indian community did not suffer much from pandemic since almost all of them have internet access and know how to use it.

And also these businesses found a ways to do business through internet delivery, pickups, et cetera.

You know, we bought groceries from Indian store.

We had no difficulty getting the grocer delivered or picked up.

So basically, and they're mostly in the suburbs.

There are some Indian community, also businesses in the Philadelphia area, Bustleton area.

They're also not really felt that kind of other communities like Korean communities, you know, the actually the Indian community benefited from pandemic, you know, the zoom classes, the yoga classes, the prayer sessions, and also give them access to worldwide Indian community.

You know, my friends and my family all the time on zoom saying goodbye.

So it has really done some good it's networking and develop the relationship within the Indian community.

- That's really encouraging to hear.

Thanks for sharing that, Nick.

Naroen - Yeah.

So I think that you know, the up rise, the George Floyd up rise happened last year, summer it's, you know, a lot of our, I can say it's a couple thing, right?

So some of our community members that have business, you know, a mom and pop a Chinese takeout business, or like take our beer deli in like a predominantly black communities, you know, there were a lot of tensions, right.

In terms of, you know, we're Cambodian, right?

So it's, it's almost the, a lot of folks would call us like Chinese or Koreans as well too, because the fact that, you know, I'm Asian and everybody through ignorance and through lack of education resulted in just, just the buying this tension.

Right?

So on the other side, too, when our business corridor in Cambodian, you know, little Cambodian South Seventh Street, right.

We have, you know, majority of our Cambodian own businesses there, but through the years that what we learned, because a lot of, you know, we're a little bit newer than a lot of Asian American community we're Southeast Asian community So we've been here less than 40 plus years, right.

Our interview because the war in Vietnam war in Southeast Asia.

So a lot of the struggles there we had, we grew up in really impoverished conditions and we still trying to crawl and trying to pick up ourself through business entrepreneurship through a working class.

However, like there was a lot of like kind of racist undertone ends up trying to folks were coming to our own community and telling us, telling the other, telling the black community leaders saying that, you know, these Asian, these Chinese folks, these Korean folks, they trying to, you know, do this business and take all the resources within our community.

But they didn't know how much we are well organized within our own community, across different color lines.

And within the, with the men black community, we've been building over the years because a lot of their issues impact with us because for us, as Southeast Asia, as Cambodian, we experience the school to the to prison and deportation pipeline.

So mass incarceration.

It's also part of our history here in Philadelphia as well too.

And a lot of this was well we faced the same issue of poverty and because of failed leadership early on in the beginning, failed leadership, both on the government.

There was no organizational help because everybody for our community members coming from genocide that killed almost millions of Cambodian, we was all about survival.

And there was no leadership at that point.

But for us, we pick our own stuff up, build what, you know, what other, the majority black and Latino communities.

And we built that relationship through there.

And so when folks come, these, they have organizer that come to our community.

That's, it's all been, it's been built up.

I mean, I'm not saying that we're, we have any, everything was all fun and danny, it took a lot to be a peaceful state.

It took a lot of racial tension for us to come back together.

Right.

And when that happened, we came together.

We do, you know, civic engagement together.

We even, you know, even vote together.

We worked together.

We eat, we showed up each other communal organizations.

We show up to black parties.

We don't have a lot of resource or money, but we give back our time and connecting because what happened to the black community here in, especially when we talk about race relation in America, you know, it happened to them first and it happened to the other communities, you know, and then we feel it, and we go through it.

And I think that, you know, when, there is national debate about race and this Asian around Asian hate as well, too, around black versus Asian, it didn't happen.

I mean, it did happen when people, we were so organized that we have so much good relation, and we're gonna continue on to building that relationship from the government, to the community, the black community, Latino community, that when that type of devices come in, we, just shut out the door.

It's like, Nope, we came a long way and trying to build our solidarity.

We're gonna continue on that.

But a lot of time people use that race card.

They used that race card and they put us against each other.

And I must say, I mean, we a lot happened in terms of negative pop, but more so it was a positive thing that came out of this.

- Thank you for sharing that detailed explanation.

And I think just in our closing minutes here, if Nick and Sharon, can you give us your closing thoughts very briefly twenty seconds.

- Well, now, the pandemic is over and it's time for us to basically see how we support our small businesses.

Micro businesses, you know, we estimate around 30% of the businesses have closed, sadly.

So, but also that use of opportunity for others to come in and pick up.

So there's a lot of opportunity coming up.

The supply chain is hurting a little bit, but it's our hope beginning of next year, everything back to normal.

- Thanks, Nick.

Final words from Sharon.

- Yes.

So we're thinking about two things we want to focus first is like a Nick said, recovering small businesses opportunities to get recovered.

And I don't think we can go fully hundred percent recover, but some how we can manage so they can continue.

Their small business is very important and keep providing information.

And a we become advocate to bridge between the mainstream and then small communities to get go through.

The other thing is a safety and our community needs to be, get connected with the police department and then other security system in the city, especially.

And then those businesses feel safe and not only running a business, but walking around and feel safe and then beautiful for city in the Philadelphia.

And we want everybody safe.

And those two things really hope in a coming back and remain in our city.

- Well, thank you all for joining us today.

We really appreciate your time and your perspectives.

We look forward to continuing conversations like this and future episodes.

I hope this discussion has been engaging and informative.

You can join the conversation too.

Just email us at talkback@whyy.org For WHYY I'm Rob Busher.

Thank you.

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